Can you kill hiram creed in a group




















Good Luck. Comment by I just did it with itemlevel , a green quality mainhand dagger and an Ulduar offhand Sword. All you need is a subtility spec and some time depends on your gear of course.

In the fighting area there are 2 stairhouses giving you line of sight blocking. Now you repeat the following cycle so long, until the Creed is dead. Run to the stairhouse before he can hit you back, use Cloak to prevent the bolt hitting you.

Before his stun wears of, you are on the move to the other stairhouse. He will try to cast on you, but because her entered the first stairhouse, you will be out of sight. You might get hit, but that's fine, since you spend the combopoint on an new recuperate while running back to the first stairhouse. Now rinse and repeat, don't get cocky and bring some time, but with that methode, you can best him in all greens.

Comment by I was afraid to spend the 10k gold because I didn't think I'd be able to successfully complete this quest; I have no idea how to play assassination or subtlety. However, I was able to complete it fairly easily as combat. I just wanted to confirm that it can be done without Shadowstep.

Reading the comments about the actual fight intimidated me, but I completed it on my first try. The one thing that really saved me was the Glyph of Blind. Other than that, it was fairly simple to avoid standing in stuff. I even missed a couple of interrupts and still beat the enrage timer didn't even need Evasion. Granted, I probably have more gear from Dragon Soul than they did when they made the initial posts here, but I found this fight fairly easy if you know what to expect. Don't be too intimidated by this boss!

A health-neutral rotation that you can just keep repeating; Blind is not needed. Use Dismantle the first burst phase, and Evasion the second, so you don't take melee damage from him.

If you are at range for Blackhorn's Will,cloak it, or just eat it. You can throw in Killing Spree on CD, it is quite a good burst. Comment by zarbuchan Just want to comment that it is possible to kill Creed as a Rogue at any iLevel at the very least as Assassination. It took me about 6 minutes and 40 seconds with iLevel gear. Having First Aid is a great help, if not basically required. So is respeccing for Improved Recuperate. Deadened Nerves is also a help. Smart use of cooldowns, stuns, and understanding that you have to kite him when you get hurt which will likely be more often than not.

Keep Recuperate up. Try to have good SnD uptime, but don't forsake Recuperate over it. Pop Rupture when you can if you aren't needing to use it on a Kidney Shot. Also, most importantly, he must be blinded at the 4 minute mark or he will enrage and you will die. I was too afraid to test if anything else disrupted his enrage, but Blind definitely works and I'd recommend saving it for it.

Comment by Finally got to do this as I was waiting for guild to come off holidays and start raiding again. I had only i weapons from 5 mans. Stealth is very hard until you figure out a path once you have a path worked out it is very very easy, may take an hour or two.

Not as easy as the fly in option though. Tips for soloing Creed Preparation - As you cannot repair etc once inside without re-stealthing back in. Smoke Bomb does not work on Blackhowl's Will and this spell is the main reason why you don't want to get too much distance as it should be interrupted every time. Comment by Oathark Something people havent really explained is a real guide to what to do at the actual fight I have killed him. Heres how with hardly any gear. My prefered spec was sublety I also had Mind-numbing poison on my main hand weapon and deadly on my off hand.

I found this to be the best combonation for creed. On engage he will open with a consuming darkness that you have to kite him out of before kicking a quick blackhowl's will. On my ambush and premed dots i recuperated I spammed hemmorhage and alternated my dots between recuperate and kidney shot Grats on your new daggers.

Comment by heradagaming you can kill yourself and run back from flying up and when you run back you respawn and you vanish its the easy way of getting to him do it on his bridge so you can use sprint to get to him fast. Comment by Dureenaa Just wanted to share how I managed to fly in: Note, I did this the "right" way once, but couldn't get Creed down. Thinking I could then simply fly in, I hearthed, respecced, and flew back.

The eye kept porting me back to the mage. First, I took off all my gear to avoid damage. I got far enough away to get the eye off me, then flew around to the South end of Gilneas right below the little 1 on my map. I flew as high as I could and then flew toward Creed. The instant the eye appeared on my screen, I dismounted and let myself fall.

I ended up dead on the roof of one of the buildings right next to Creed. I released, ran back to my body, and when I hit the button to come back to life, Zazzo told me I'd made it. I'm assuming this will work for anyone who wants to get to Creed without dealing with the stealthy part of the quest.

Comment by adenvz If you want the fight against Creed to be easy, put mind numbing poison on your off-hand. This gives you plenty of time to always interrupt Blackhowl's Will, which is the only ability he uses that will put you behind in this fight.

Comment by Blightman Just did this as combat spec. Sap mob 1 when the two patting mobs are not near by. You need to time leaving the water so that you have time to restealth and move up the stairs to the 2nd sap. An optional distract can be used on the dock pat. When mob 4 starts patting down the ramp away from mob 3 follow him and sap when you are far enough away from mob 3.

Mob 5: This sap will occur after the 3rd distract. Wait for mob 5 to be patting away from the group you will be distracting You will need to use Distract 3 times, with one recommended optional distract that are marked on this Map. The optional distract is not shown on this map. Rember if you are in the degree arc behind the mob they will not detect you even if the red circle overlaps them.

This distract is optional but recommended for 2 reasons. Distract the 3 mob group near the wall to all be facing the wall. You could probably face them towards the tree and sneak by as well. Distract three mob group next to the wall to face the tree Distract the two mobs talking by the wall to face away from teh wall Let's stitch this all together: Jump into water Swim to end of dock Sap mob 1 Wait for pats to be out of position to detect you before leaving water.

Mob at top of stairs does not need to be sapped Distract group 3 and slip past them along the wall Turn Right Kill Creed This is as clear as I can make it without a video. Took me 2 hours, with some tips of a rogue that already been at boss waiting, to reach the boss. Tips: keep calm, move safely, sap and distract carefully, and be ninja!

Comment by rottenzombie It really is more difficult getting to Creed than actually killing him. I managed to kill him after a couple tries with just gears MH weapon , OF weapon , with help of flask and food. I went combat for main gauche. The most important talents in my mind are quickening and improved recuperate.

With those two at full points you can basically keep close to full hp throughout the fight. Reinforced leather helped a little, they probably just give you a bigger room for error. I actually had points in improved gouge, but I only had to use it once. I even invested points in improved slice and dice, which turned into a waste since I didn't even use SnD. Use dismantle as soon as cd finishes, I would usually pop adrenaline rush after a kidney shot to get quick combo points for recuperate.

I found killing spree to be useless since it is easy to miss a cast when you are dancing around. I saved evasion just in case my health got too low, although it probably wasn't necessary since I never dropped below half health.

I didn't use a single offensive finishing move all fight except at the very end. It takes time, but once you get the hang of it, it is a really easy fight. Comment by Weight The boss is really easy.. Comment by jambal Okay this is how I did it - Part 1: Stealth in: Don't bother - go away from the starting NPC until the eye debuff goes away and the fly to just below the 1 on your map - should be a rocky outcrop on the edge of the river - Fly up and over the City Walls towards the 1 and dismount and stealth just as the eye appears Part 2: The man himself.

I was struggling as assassination until I used my secondary spec, Combat then re-specced this so I got improved recuperate this helps a lot - Poisons - Mind-Numbing and Crippling. It took me many goes as assassination spec standard raid spec until I decided to have a go as combat and it seemed much easier - timing and luck will get you a long way but the daggers are well worth the patience!

I noticed another Alliance rogue was on the same q, so I teamed up with him, we didnt group, but just helped eachother out. Comment by Realizing that the red detection circle was only relevant when you're not within the 5,6,7 o'clock position from the enemy is extremely important. After being flat out stealth detected in the previous part of the chain I had made excessive assumptions.

The street route is very doable. Subtlety is optional but my god shadowstep it save you time! I did it the first time without relying on shadowstep but got caught by a stupid pat dog by the sewer system.

If you're interested in doing it "the right way", read on. If you want to do it the "cheap way", which is the water route, you can skip down near the end though I think someone else already posted that method If you leveled up as subtlety you should be pretty used to this and do this smoothly even if its your first or second time.

Basically from where the mage is, head straight almost toward the end while sapping everyone on your way. You can sap people barely outside of the red circle, even if they were facing you!

Even if you enter combat as long as you sapped or vanished the split second it happens and reposition yourself, you will not get teleported back. Once you make it through the gate house you're in this quad area with a tree on your left and a wagon slightly to your right, in front of you.

Due to pats, you head to the tree and reroute back around the wagon. Again, sap everyone on your way. Don't worry about the sitters, at most your red circle will barely touch the person back-facing you. Sap the pat. Now you should only have to keep an eye out for worgen pats to your right, but if i recall correctly if you position yourself correctly there shouldn't ever be any risk of moving on even at his closest point of his pat route.

Just go straight through the awnings and you'll never be seen. By the end of the awnings, there's a group of 2 people chatting, with a human patting in and out to socialize, and you can see a lone human standing by a flag pole.

If you have shadowstep, shadowstep to the flag guy and immediately sap him. You can now take a breather and review your surroundings. If not, wait for the pat to go away, distract the chatters, and move around them. Try to make it to the flagpole and sapping the guy there to use it as a staging area. From there, you can move on to.. Beware of a pat coming in and out of there.

Becareful at the turn when you make it to the stairs. At ground-level there's one pat dead around the corner who moves somewhat fast and must be sapped as soon as she turns her back on you to give yourself some leeway to time for the other pats. You can try to adjust your camera to see her around the corner. There are two patrols who will be using the stairs coming in and out of the next square.

You needed that previous pat sapped to use her position to watch out for this group. When the coast is clear, speed down the stairs and dash right into the water. Move all the way down the water path until you see two sentries in a somewhat wide passage. Sapping people on the way, distract clusters, and hop down the stairs and dash into the sewers. I discovered this when i messed up the first the first time after making it all the way to the sewers and really didn't want to try again.

In my impatience I realized its actually very possible to go through all that very quickly and smoothly. Sap her, and you're clear to have another breather. Make your way up the stairs, and hug right. There are several guards here, but all of them back facing the wall, and being about 5 yards away from the wall. Hard right, no pats, and there's Creed.

It's pretty rough as sub even with energetic recovery to make sure you have enough energy to keep things going at the right times and being able to kick. My other problem with sub is Blind was not an option for me because I didn't glyph it and Sub simply relies on the bleeds.

I tried combat, and it was simply much easier. He turns drakkenoid but honestly, it didn't felt like much of a "berserk" as combat, just disarm, gouge, kidney shot, blind as needed. I think sundering his armor was unnecessary because honestly, i completley forgot to use it after the first time. Overall, interrupting the cast is the most important thing about your survival. The shadowflame breath is not hard at all to dodge and honestly giving you a free pot shots at him from behind, a boon to subs.

The ground AoE's dont hurt all that terribly much. Don't stay in there, but no sweat if u have to quickly move through it if you were out of space or just couldn't pay that much attention.

Edited out a misinformation. Chaining their CC until DR's start hurting, then blinding to reset them gives you so much freedom to heal off recup. Comment by After a lot of trying, I think I may have found the best path through the city. I made a video of it, I hope it helps. I can pretty much give my personal guarantee that this pathway will work every time, I did well over 30 run-ins while figuring out the software to record it.

It's also a super simple pathway that requires little timing, planning or reflexes to get through. Just search "Serathia's Guide to Assassinate Creed" on youtube. Comment by legoman60 The stealth section and the boss can be done in a group. However, everyone in your group must be on this quest or they will be phased out.

Limiting your group to rogues who haven't finished it. If you manage to catch another rogue trying to stealth through it is worth it to group up. Comment by Xrynn Getting to the boss drove me out of my mind! Jump in the water left and swim to the stairs left make sure you are in stealth — easy 2.

Getting out the water breaks stealth, hence Shadowstep is a must! Up the stars — Turn right avoid guards walking and jump down to the small bridge — easy 4. Avoiding roving patrols, SAP the guard on the right — easy 6. Try and SAP him when he is far left — easy 7.

Now… aim for the roving guard closest to the boss, it is a female guard. Almost there! Hug the right wall — SAP the guard that will be in your way — easy Keep hugging the wall — you only have 2 more guards in your path off to your left.

Two options a. SAP one and dash into the boss area — this will pull guards so you need to make sure you engage the boss; this way you can ghost walk back and fight him. I defer to others to explain the fight. I hope this helps. Comment by A quick and easy way to do this quest without cheesing it is to follow these steps: 1 Ride not fly down the path to the southernmost bridge into Gilneas and follow it up to the mobs 2 Shadowstep to the back row of the group of enemies This is a safe spot to wait for an opening for step three.

Comment by Senppuu Well, just a friendly tip: If you're having a lot of trouble beating this guy like i did , try applying for a random bg, get all the buffs and leave the battle.

The battle will be a lot more smooth if you have all the buffs! Comment by sparhawk Ok, I completed this earlier, solo as combat spec. I tried going through the 'front gate' So I found this video on youtube. I claim no credits for this video, I just thought I would share it with you. Now, as for the fight itself. Just me Charred Glyph was also used for that extra few seconds of avoidance. I chose to make a couple of dummy tries to get an idea of his abilities and how hard he hits etc, just to get into the rhythm before I tried 'properly'.

So I would have a little go and build up some combo points and generally have a go and see how it went, I soon realised I was missing the interrupts on Blackhowl's Will , so I vanished and waited for my cd's and had another nibble. Interrupting this ability is the most important thing you will do in this fight because it will drain your energy to zero and hit for around 18k damage. The other two main abilities he has is Consuming Darkness This is a 40 yard AoE ability that is easily avoided by simply staying on the move as he begins to cast.

Don't stand still and don't bother trying to interrupt it, you'll need the interrupt for Blackhowl's Will. The other ability he has is Shadow Breath which is a frontal cone aoe ability that is avoided simply by sidestepping around him. He will do nothing else while channeling this spell, so use that time to good effect by building combo points. The fight itself is a case of rinse and repeat using as your main finishing move and rotating your cc abilities.

These are abilities that will make the fight a lot easier, although I have to admit to not using gouge or combat readiness. Your health will fall, but make sure you keep up at all times. Kick is the most important ability you will use throughout the fight next to. You can swallow a couple of Blackhowl's Will no problem as long as you avoid the aoe.

If you find you're too far away to kick the Blackhowl's Will , just pop Cloak of Shadows and get after him again.

Deadly Throw is also an option but I found I didn't need it. Probably the best bit of advice I can offer in beating him is to keep your cool, and forget about burning him down fast.

You have a 4 minute timer before he enrages, and as anyone will know, 4 minutes is a long time in a fight. Keep your health up, and should you feel you're losing ground, build up a 5 point and Blind him. Use your Kidney Shot when he's casting and dismantle as soon as it's ready unless you intend to blind. Try not to overlap your cc's and most important again, keep that ticking. If you go as combat, Adrenaline Rush is awesome for building a fast 5 points for either a Kidney Shot or.

Killing Spree is always nice for when he's using Shadow Breath , because you will automatically appear behind him away from the breath. This is why you should keep active at all times. Whatever you do, don't go into the fight thinking you'll pwn. Use your abilities, use your head, keep calm and think about what you're doing.

Also, i find it really easier when boss learn ability of Shadow Breath. It's really easy to evade and he doesn't do any other damage, like stun almost that cool :D After he finished his Shadow Breath, if recup is still up feel free to stun him. Thanks for all your nice and helpful comments! PS: my ilvl was when i beat him. Comment by MCMXCIX Here's something to make the fight easier: if you and a healer have done the Silverpine Forest quests possibly only the ones in Gilneas, but I did all of them just in case , the healer can fly to you and be in your but not Creed's phase.

This means that they can't target Creed, but they CAN target you, so you dps while they heal you. Made the fight infinitely easier. At 85, it didn't take long at all to do the quests in Silverpine, assuming you and your healer haven't already done them.

Comment by xalis I was trying creed for three hours since i had blue and green daggers then i found a very good combat specc but that was not the key because i was not doing enough dps to kill him b4 he berserks but i found out that sometimes blind resets the timer of berserk this happens sometimes not always.

Comment by sayne9 Did this today on my poorly geared alt rogue as assassination. Tried it a couple of times with the basic raid build and had my butt handed to me. Switched to my leveling build that had improved recup and deadened nerves and no venomous wounds and it was pretty easy.

Keep recup up, kidney shot while he isn't doing his frontal cone, and interrupt all the will's that you can. I didn't have mind numbing on me and didn't want to risk having to stealth through town again so had to be quick but those would be a huge help I am sure just putting it on your thrown and applying it that way.

Didn't dismantle or blind because the need to never came up with the constant kidney shots. Comment by Just finished this quest not to long ago on my rogue and I must say it was fairly easy to down Creed. After reading these posts I noticed the one thing that I had done differently was having Shadow Protection up. The fight didnt last much longer after that. Comment by Just thought I should comment, I successfully killed him as an ilvl fully pvp geared rogue.

Followed some of the strategies above, just make sure to use everything you have in your arsenal, make sure, if you're going to kite wait until he casts Blackhowl's Will right before you do. It isn't as impossible as it seems when you first try, so keep trying. Also i had no consumables, but i did use bandages. Comment by I just got him down with dps, so it doesn't take much. No kiting. No blind. Minimal stuns.

What I learned from my previous wipes: Blind can cause you to hit the enrage timer. Comment by Coldheart Did this with ilvl. Just take some buffs of your friends and a flask of steelskin GG. View in 3D Links. Lord Hiram Creed says: Assassin, eh? Who sent you? Speak, or I will carve the answer from your skull! Obtaining Legendary Items.

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World of Warcraft. Classic Vanilla The Frozen Throne Reforged. Explore Wikis Community Central. Nor did restriction satisfactorily reduce the role of Catholics, Jews, and first- and second-generation immigrants in American public life.

The complementary approach is to recognize the deep satisfactions Klan membership afforded. They also flocked into the "Invisible Empire" to enjoy the satisfactions of imposing their views upon their neighbors, of holding office in an "exalted" realm, of reveling in the fellowship of "Klannishness. Let us turn first to the fears, frustrations, and resentments which Evans so successfully articulated.

Prohibition belongs at or near the top of the list. As the graph above shows, arrests under the Volstead Act reached an all-time high in The previous peak, , had also been a presidential election year. But, as the number of arrests went up, the amount of illegal liquor seized continued to decline. How can we reconcile the data? Federal agents and state and local police arrested more people in than in , 10, more or One possible explanation was that the government was winning its battle against liquor trafficking.

If many of the large dealers had been shut down, and the government had turned its attention to mopping up the small producers, the data would make sense. This, however, was not the case. Al Capone's empire in Chicago, detailed here by the Chicago Historical Society, was merely the most notorious of the large-scale criminal rings nationwide which defied Prohibition, often with the assistance of local police and prosecutors.

Why then did arrests skyrocket in presidential election years? A cynical explanation might be that the Coolidge administration was seeking to show its ongoing commitment to Prohibition. Worse than the inability of the state, local, and federal authorities to enforce Prohibition was the distain expressed by the young and the "Smart Set. Mencken notably called them. Reed in which he excoriated Prohibition advocates as "fanatics. The statutory reformer has a single and invariable method of procedure.

He magnifies the wickedness and sufferings of mankind and attributes them all to the object of his special malediction. Witness the Prohibition propaganda. Its literature blazed with assertions that all vice, crime, poverty, and human agony were directly chargeable to the Rum Fiend. He was the devil incarnate who produced virginal incontinence, marital infelicity, theft, arson, rape, robbery and murder.

His remorseless hands, holding the white throat of innocence in an iron grasp, were dragging myriads of unfortunates to untimely graves and condemning them to the fires of an endless perdition. He it was who filled the jails and penitentiaries with pitiable creatures who otherwise would have stood resplendent as pillars of the state and ornaments of society. The reformer cried aloud: "Amend the Constitution, pass the Volstead statute and in the twinkling of an eye evil will vanish!

Close the saloons and the jails will empty themselves; cries of poverty will be turned to songs of joy; childish wailings to melodious laughter; drunken blows to fond caresses; and hatred be transmuted into tenderest love. Highwaymen will give up their bludgeons and become ministers of justice. Thieves will no longer 'break through and steal'! The legal revolution occurred, but the moral miracle did not come off according to schedule. Men still go philandering, and sometimes maidens listen to their amorous wooings.

The fashionable swain, bottle on hip, is received in polite society. He presses his flask to the lips of a girl whose pre-Volstead mother would have scorned a boy with liquor-tainted breath. The fires were put out in the furnaces of the distilleries and breweries, but were lighted under ten thousand illicit stills. Moonshining became a profitable trade, bootlegging a dignified profession, rum-running a romantic calling. An army recruited from elevator boys, taxi drivers, bell hops, soda fountain girls--every occupational class from hod-carriers to church sextons--is engaged in the retail traffic.

Colored gentlemen drive Pierce Arrows and dusky maidens sport the furs of the arctics. And who, pray, are the customers? The answer is, everybody who wants a drink and that "everybody" embraces hundreds of thousands of women in homes from which, prior to the Reformation, liquor was banned and barred. Other thousands are boys who, under the old regime, would have understood that their safety depended upon the exercise of self-restraint, but who now seem to rely upon the law for protection, and yet regard the breaking of the law as a pastime, and guzzling liquor from a hip flask as an enviable prank.

A vast multitude of men who formerly reverenced the law now deliberately and avidly conspire for its breach. The leprosy of hypocrisy has become epidemic.

Half-drunken legislators enact dry laws and celebrate the achievement in moonshine. Judges sometimes let us hope rarely impose merciless sentences and anaesthetize their human sensibilities in bootleg.

Police officers, sheriffs, constables, and bailiffs, their breaths reeking with rot-gut, drag to jail an occasional victim selected as a sacrifice to public clamor.

But not one out of a thousand violators is ever arrested or prosecuted. Meanwhile the Prohibition force revels in blackmail, subornation, venal immunities, treachery, fraud and crime promotion, revolting practices inseparable from the spy system. Tyrannous acts are of hourly occurrence.

In violation of the Constitution, the homes, the business houses, baggage, vehicles, and persons of citizens are indiscriminately seized and searched. In , in a single judicial district, more than eight hundred out of one thousand searches were illegally made. But all the while the great tide of traffic proceeds. Two years after Reed's jeremiad the American Bar Association added its voice. It passed a resolution calling for repeal on the grounds that Prohibition undermined respect for the rule of law.

The A. But Senator Reed included it among his list of statutory reforms advanced by "fanatics":. The amendment was passed. What then? What became of the promised "disappearance of crime, the regeneration of politics, the moral purification? Per contra, the dresses are a little shorter, the flapper is a little flappier, the hair-bobber becomes more opulent, and the cigarette vendor enjoys a boom. These fortuitous conditions may be the result of the new freedom, or mere coincidences.

I venture not to say. Just as many disgruntled with the inability of law enforcement officials to make Prohibition work turned to the Klan with its promise to make local communities dry, many women flocked to the Women of the Klu Klux klan as a way of exercising the sort of moral influence on public life promised by the vote.

The Women of the KKK, that is, carried into the s a particular strain of suffragist argument. It combined an assertion of woman's equality with an endorsement of woman's traditional roles. It justified women's participation in politics on the grounds that they would raise its moral tone. It appealed to women who had grown up in the Victorian Era or immediately thereafter and had defined themselves in terms of its ideals.

However much such women might have bridled at Senator Reed's sarcasm, they would have accepted his verdict that the vote had not ushered in "the prophesied millennium. Here is a portion of the "Creed" of Klanswomen [for the full text click on the "Creed"]:.

Immigration restriction also proved less than satisfying. Smith was a second-generation immigrant, a Roman Catholic, a Wet, and a loyal member of Tammany Hall, the archetypical political "machine. Neither he nor McAdoo gained the nomination. Nor did the Smith-sponsored plank condemning the KKK by name win approval. It fell four votes short. But the epic struggle ended McAdoo's political career and gave an enormous boost to Smith's.

In he did capture the nomination and, in the process, created in the Democratic Party a home for ethnics, Catholics, Jews, Wets, and others the Johnson-Reed Act stigmatized as unworthy of being Americans. Even Anti-Catholicism, a core Klan "conviction," proved less than fully satisfying. It clearly carried the day in the election of , even as Herbert Hoover conscientiously strove not to be its champion.

Jews played highly visible and important roles both in Smith's gubernatorial administrations and in his campaign. Anti-Semites, as a result, could also take satisfaction in his defeat. But Smith's capture of the nomination proved a lasting victory. Catholics, Jews, white ethnics became key elements of the Roosevelt coalition which would dominate American politics through the middle third of the twentieth century.

That coalition would repeal Prohibition as one of its first acts. Roosevelt would deliver on Smith's promise to give important government posts to Jews, Catholics, and women. Unlike Wilson, Roosevelt did not distain dealing with urban machine politicians. The anti-Catholicism victory of , in short, proved short-lived; Smith's achievement in creating a political home for his core constituencies, on the other hand, transformed American politics.

Outside of electoral politics, the failure of "Nordic" Americanism was even more apparent, and occured even more quickly. Wartime campaigns against sin, compellingly detailed in Nancy K. Bristow's Making Men Moral: Social Engineering During the Great War , sponsored by the Wilson administration through the Commission on Training Camp Activities and staffed by thousands of eager volunteers, did not usher in a more virtuous America any more than Prohibition or women's suffrage did.

In early January , Duke Ellington recorded Flaming Youth , a musical salute to the "victims" of "the mush, slush, the sly suggestion, the abandoned sensuousness of sliding notes," as Henry Ford fulminated against Jewish-controlled and inspired jazz music in The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem.

Jazz's open appeal to sensuality and sexuality was a straw in the wind. Even as the Klan enforced "traditional moral standards" in small communities, they continued to go "by the boards" in the nation, as Imperial Wizard Evans lamented.

The "flapper" provides a striking case in point. She bobbed her hair, wore dresses that barely reached the knee, went to "petting parties," wore lipstick and rouge, danced the Charleston [here played by Paul Whiteman and his Orchestra in a recording]. Gone were the days when young men called upon young women at home and couples sat in the parlor at the piano and sang duets while parents hovered in the background. Advertisers, as we will see, idealized the flapper's sense of adventure, her unwillingness to abide the "old-fashioned" restrictions and "repressions" of the s, her gaiety.

Movies celebrated her, even as some films professed concern over her "wildness," as in "Our Dancing Daughters. The Playful flapper here we see, The fairest of the fair. She's not what Grandma used to be, -- You might say, au contraire. Her girlish ways may make a stir, Her manners cause a scene, But there is no more harm in her Than in a submarine.

She nightly knocks for many a goal The usual dancing men. Her speed is great, but her control Is something else again. All spotlights focus on her pranks. All tongues her prowess herald. For which she well may render thanks To God and Scott Fitzgerald. Her golden rule is plain enough - Just get them young and treat them rough. Edna St. Vincent Millay, who won a Pulitzer Prize for her poetry in the s, famously captured the romantic, desparate side to "Flaming Youth":. Anne Shaw Faulkner, head of the Music Department of the General Federation of Women's Clubs, expressed some of the initial outrage at the way the younger generation was carrying on in article in The Ladies' Home Journal of August Jazz originally was the accompaniment of the voodoo dancer, stimulating the half-crazed barbarian to the vilest deeds.

The weird chant, accompanied by the syncopated rhythm of the voodoo invokers, has also been employed by other barbaric people to stimulate brutality and sensuality. That it has a demoralizing effect upon the human brain has been demonstrated by many scientists. There is always a revolutionary period of the breaking down of old conventions and customs which follows after every great war; and this rebellion against existing conditions is to be noticed in all life to-day.

Unrest, the desire to break the shackles of old ideas and forms are abroad. So it is no wonder that young people should have become so imbued with this spirit that they should express it in every phase of their daily lives.

The question is whether this tendency should be demonstrated in jazz -- that expression of protest against law and order, that bolshevik element of license striving for expression in music. I want to beg all you parents, and grandparents, and friends, and teachers, and preachers--you who constitute the "older generation"--to overlook our shortcomings, at least for the present, and to appreciate our virtues. I wonder if it ever occurred to any of you that it required brains to become and remain a successful flapper?

Indeed it does! It requires an enormous amount of cleverness and energy to keep going at the proper pace. It requires self-knowledge and self-analysis. We must know our capabilities and limitations. We must be constantly on the alert. Attainment of flapperhood is a big and serious undertaking! And do you know who is largely responsible for all this energy's being spent in the wrong directions? You parents,and grandparents, and friends, and teachers, and preachers--all of you!

Yet it is you who set the example there! But this is my point: Instead of helping us work out our problems with constructive, sympathetic thinking and acting, you have muddled them for us more hopelessly with destructive public condemnation and denunciation. Bruce Bliven, writing in the New Republic , linked the flapper to the emancipation of women:.

Do the morals go with the clothes? Or the clothes with the morals? Or are they independent? These are questions I have not ventured to put to Jane, knowing that her answer would be "so's your old man.

Anyhow, the new Era of Undressing, as already suggested, has spread far beyond the boundaries of Jane's group. The fashion is followed by hordes of unquestionably monogamous matrons, including many who join heartily in the general ululations as to what young people are coming to. Attempts to link the new freedom with prohibition, with the automobile, the decline of Fundamentalism, are certainly without foundation.

These may be accessory, and indeed almost certainly are, but only after the fact. That fact is, as Jane says, that women to-day are shaking off the shreds and patches of their age-old servitude.

Women have highly resolved that they are just as good as men, and intend to be treated so. They don't mean to have any more unwanted children. They don't intend to be debarred from any profession or occupation which they choose to enter. They clearly mean even though not all of them yet realize it that in the great game of sexual selection they shall no longer be forced to play the role, simulated or real, of helpless quarry.

If they want to wear their heads shaven, as a symbol of defiance against the former fate which for three millenia forced them to dress their heavy locks according to male decrees, they will have their way.

If they should elect to go naked nothing is more certain than that naked they will go, while from the sidelines to which he has been relegated mere man is vouchsafed permission only to pipe a feeble Hurrah! By the middle of the s it was clear that the defense had won the day.

The choice of the verb is significant. The "modern woman," busily engaged in "a thousand and one activities," wanted clothes "expressive" of their own "slim" and "natural" grace. The old fashions were "fussy" and "elaborate. The J. Walter Thompson Agency , which created the ad, was not particularly interested in doing anything beyond selling soap. This is precisely why this ad and the hundreds of others which idealized the "modern girl" and her "sensible" demands for freedom and her rejection of the "repressions" of her mother's girlhood -- to cite phrases from J.

Walter Thompson's campaign for Modess sanitary napkins entitled "Modernizing Mother" -- provide such clear evidence of the outcome of the "flap" over "flappers. Her standards became "cultivated taste. In one ad the "modern daughter" teaches her mother, product of a "gloomier age," the new steps. The entire text is here. Advertising copywriters, as we have begun to see, were clearly in league with the Prince of Darkness.

Consider this example. Two women, clearly friends, both stylishly dressed, are sharing confidences in this ad from the late s. Women hadn't started smoking until they got the vote, she went on.

Of course, that was not a reason to smoke. The reason was the same as that given in the Camels ad, pleasure. Smoking gave her a lot of pleasure. Besides, her boyfriend smoked. So did her brothers, but not, she did not need to say, her mother. Smoking, the Chesterfield ad suggested, was a way to be modern, to claim equality with men, and to participate in the new spirit of the age, the open pursuit of pleasure.

The Camels ad made the same appeals but more tersely and with a scarcely disguised hint that the pleasure involved was deeply sensual. The conversation had to be confidential. Your "first time" was a subject you could only share with your closest friend. In the years following World War I Americans embarked upon an unprecedented voyage of consumption. They would have more and better products than dreamed of in earlier ages.

Consuming more required more than mass production, available credit, and omnipresent advertising. It also required a new mentality, an ethos. Consuming became a way of defining yourself, of measuring your standing in the community. What Thorstein Veblen described as the mores of the elite in The Theory of the Leisure Class became those of the middle class as well.

The "leisure class," Veblen wrote at the end of the nineteenth century, used consumption as a way of showing off their "pecuniary prowress. Your "ability to pay" had to be visible to all. Then conspicuous consumption had been the practice of the idle rich. In the s the middle class learned to ape their betters. A Lucky Strike ad described this new ethos as a liberation from ancient prejudices.

But "American Intelligence" proved that a sensible swimsuit promoted both "better health and pure enjoyment. It suggested, as with the term "false modesty," that the old moral prohibitions were simply wrong, "ancient prejudices. The implication about smoking was clear. Enjoyment was at the heart of the new ethos. Self-appointed agents of modernity, advertising copywriters relentlessly trumpheted the irrelevance of tradition and traditional values.

In , the J. The agency dubbed the campaign "Modernizing Mother" and even numbered the "episodes," presumably so that consumers could make sure they did not miss any. Episode Nine showed the "modern girl" exchanging her mother's cotton nightie "A cotton nightie is primitive.

The copy praised the "modern girl's "sane" enthusiasm and declared her "so everlastingly right in refusing the drudgeries and repressions of her mother's girlhood. Movie moguls did the Devil's bidding as well. Some films, such as Mary Pickford's many starring vehicles, were "wholesome. Sennett invented the "bathing beauty" and the tradition of filling the screen with attractive young women in comparatively scanty costumes.

Still other films were frankly racy. Indeed the film, while making Valentino's character regret his action, also had Banky fall in love with him.

Efforts to get the movie industry to censor itself began in the early s and proved largely unavailing until As Frank Couvares has shown, one reason for this failure was a split within the ranks of American Protestantism between "liberal" denominations and conservative and fundamentalist churches.

Liberal Protestants worried as much as their conservative brethren over the moral influence of movies. But they had difficulty reconciling themselves to calls for blanket prohibitions of certain materials. Under certain circumstances, such scenes might themselves make powerful moral points.

There were also troubling, to them, issues of artistic freedom. In the absence of a Protestant consensus, movie moguls allowed the market to determine the sorts of films they made. All of this points to the ironies associated with the successes "Normalcy" brought. Prohibition was the law. So was women's suffrage. But, far from strengthening traditional morality, both seemed to lead inexplicably in the opposite direction. So did prosperity.

It fed off and reinforced an ethic of pleasure in which "sophistication" replaced "wholesomeness" as the most desirable quality women and men could cultivate. Even immigration restriction, seemingly a pure triumph for "Nordic" Americans, could not change the fact that the United States had become, and would remain, a highly diverse society.

Jazz became the music of the day; James P. Johnson, a black composer, wrote the decade's anthem, "Charleston. Jews, as Henry Ford railed, controlled much of the movie industry. Catholics ran many of the nation's largest cities. All of these disappointments, for such they were to "Nordic" Americans," made the Klan so appealing to so many. As early as the s Tocqueville remarked upon the American proclivity for forming voluntary associations:.

Americans of all ages, all conditions, and all dispositions constantly form associations. They have not only commercial and manufacturing companies, in which all take part, but associations of a thousand other kinds, religious, moral, serious, futile, general or restricted, enormous or diminutive.

The Americans make associations to give entertainments, to found seminaries, to build inns, to construct churches, to diffuse books, to send missionaries to the antipodes; in this manner they found hospitals, prisons, and schools. If it is proposed to inculcate some truth or to foster some feeling by the encouragement of a great example, they form a society.

Wherever at the head of some new undertaking you see the government in France, or a man of rank in England, in the United States you will be sure to find an association. By the late nineteenth century, many of these societies took the form of fraternal orders.



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